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BLITZER’S BLOG: With Cain out, “9-9-9” is dead-dead-dead
By Wolf Blitzer, CNN
(CNN) - With Herman Cain out of the Republican race for the White House, what happens to his “9-9-9” tax plan? The short answer, of course, is that it’s gone. What isn’t gone, though, is a desire for major tax reform in the United States.
All the candidates have come out with various proposals to reshape the way the government taxes people and corporations. There is an emerging consensus among Republicans and Democrats that the system is way too complicated, inefficient and costly. Fresh ideas are absolutely necessary.
The debate, which will intensify in the coming months, is how best to achieve that reform. One thing that clearly does emerge from Cain’s ill-fated presidential run is that a national sales tax - 9% in Cain’s model - is very unpopular. Indeed, Democrats and Republicans can agree they don’t like the idea.
Democrats think it’s regressive. Why, many of them ask, should rich Americans pay the same flat rate that poor and middle class Americans pay? They hate the idea.
Republicans don’t like a new revenue stream coming into the federal government. They fear that 9% today could easily become 15% tomorrow and 20% down the road.
Cain’s 9-9-9 plan was bitterly attacked by his Republican challengers precisely because of this element. Don’t let the federal government, they said, get a new source of your money. They will never give it up.
I think in the long term that, perhaps, will be the most important lesson from the Cain campaign. It underscored rather clearly that a new national sales tax is something Americans don’t want.
Republicans will no doubt continue to push for what they call a flatter and fairer tax but with no national sales tax component.
There’s one additional point forcefully made by Democrats and Republicans. The Europeans have their version of a national sales tax and look how well things have turned out for them.
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RELATED: Reporter's Notebook: The Rise and Fall of the real Herman Cain
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Post by: Filed under: 2012 election • Herman Cain • Taxes • Wolf Blitzer |
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@TruthinPolitics: Q -Why, many of them ask, should rich Americans pay the same flat rate that poor and middle class Americans pay? A -Because 9% of $1M is more then 9% of 20k.
Flat taxes (for example, sales tax) are regressive. Here's the definition: "In terms of individual income and wealth, a regressive tax imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich — there is an inverse relationship between the tax rate and the taxpayer's ability to pay as measured by assets, consumption, or income."
If you don't see the problem with that, then you're hopeless.
No mention of Ron Paul's 0-0-0 plan. The fairest income tax for all is 0%. Sales tax of 0%.
So how do you get revenue for government after doing that? Stop the trillion dollar endless wars and cut the useless government departments. Let the people keep their money. They will start businesses with it and create a booming economy. No more debt. No more endless wars. Refuse to be a slave!
How about answering your own question. How does the government get revenue with 0 percent tax? Stopping a war doesn't create revenue.
To critically look at what you present as Ron Paul's programs should make it clear that it couldn't work, that what you are advocating is a non-government, a totally independent society with everyone being totally individual which could only digress to total chaos and survival of only the strongest. That is effectively advocating going back to pre-civilization. Now I'm sure Ron Paul isn't suggesting that but you do point out how his proposals lack workability.
Hear hear!! I would love to keep every cent I earn ... unfortunately, those pesky roadways I like to travel on have to maintained ... :o(
Yeah.. so you didn't explain how you get revenue for the government.. you just reiterated taking in no money. A government with no income is not a government at all.
This idea is absurd. How would the government get revenue? Donations? We need money for defense, highways, firemen, teachers, congress etc. I could go on for days, but I don't think its necessary. If the best way to improve government is to get rid of it, you might be in the wrong country.
So who is going to determine what is useless and what is needed? If our leaders can't even agree on a budget, how in the world will they agree on which departments to cut? For each department you want to cut, someone else will see a need for the department. If you think the EPA is not needed for example, what happens when a company dumps in a local stream?
ummm, you still need taxes. 0% of a booming economy is $0.00
"No mention of Ron Paul's 0-0-0 plan. The fairest income tax for all is 0%. Sales tax of 0%. So how do you get revenue for government after doing that? Stop the trillion dollar endless wars and cut the useless government departments. "
So...no more military? No more FBI? No more FAA? No more National Weather Service? No more national parks?
Freedom isn't free. Pay for our country!
The solution to not having to create a tax plan is simple... you should create more jobs... thats the win win sitution here. The more jobs you create the more tax money you have coming in.... why is it that no one sees this solution as the only answer to the question? Am I the only one that does? Is the rest of this country just stupid?
Good idea. But who creates the jobs? Government cannot. All their jobs are paid for by taking your tax money and paying another government employee. Only business creates jobs. Small business creates 70% of all jobs. So, if you want new jobs, create an environment that makes it easy for small business to grow in. That means less government regulation, less taxes and a level playing field. Having a level playing field means eliminating the current Corporations buying politicians to pass regulations that favor big corporations. So how do you get that done? Vote for Ron Paul. He will do all these things.
Craig, how should we create jobs? Unfortunately, I don't think you've grasped an insight that any others here have missed. More jobs would certainly increase tax revenue. If you're talking about getting the government to create jobs though, than that costs money. It's like a long-term investment that the government makes by having public-works programs and enhancing infrastructure. It doesn't appear to be working too well does it? If you want to "create" jobs, then let the free-market work, correct for externalities, and the amount of wealth in the economy will naturally maximize.
The only candidate that will allow that to happen is Ron Paul. And in case you doubters haven't noticed, the guy is gaining in the polls and the media is finally beginning to see this guy as a real contender for the republican nomination.
I agree with you Craig, Though our government feels that cutting taxes to entice companies to open in the US, would lead to proseperity and rampant misuse of our domestic resources and well we can't have that. So what they propose it to raise the taxes so the remaining companies, decide that the USA isn't a place where they can continue to stay in business.When those companies relocate to Europe where the tax structure can allow them to remain in business the Tax and spend Myopic morons will figure out how they can raise the tax on the remaining people. US!!
OH create new jobs! Brilliant! Noone ever thought of that!
Since you have all the answers.. how do we create new jobs? 😀
Sorry Craig, either you aren't paying attention to the news or you just think far too highly of yourself. Of course creating jobs will help, but just saying create jobs doesn't actually create them. The president has been pushing a jobs bill for the past 3 months and he can't get support from any republicans. Taxes are low historically speaking, but job creators aren't hiring. The problem looks pretty simple to me. There just isn't enough demand.
Just create jobs? It's that easy? Wow! Why didn't I think of that...
Your dumb statement reminds of the Movie 6 days and 7 nights where Harrison Ford and Anne Heche crash on a desert island in his small two seater plane. The crash broke off one of the landing gear and Anne Hech asks "Can't you re-attach it"? To which he replies:
"Oh sure. We'll just glue it back on".
Your statement is like that. Create more jobs? Great! We'll just glue the jobs back on...
Maybe he can go back to being the phony pastor....deacon...whatever he is and ask for forgiveness.......he came on the scene like he was really bringing something to the arena all he bought was a bunch of bs...and embarrassment to the American people except his groupies...oh I forgot they all turned on him...because he stopped the checks...Loser...!
Europe's problems are because of massive debt, over spending, entitlements, etc. It isn't the result of their nations tax systems. Sometimes I think a VAT style tax here would simplify things a lot, and also capture tax revenue from all of the illegal aliens. It'd also reduce fraud.
And why should rich people be punished for becoming successful. There should be a flat tax rate – NO DEDUCTIONS. No more punishing people for being successful – it is unAmerican.
The fall and rise of a country resides in the riches hands. If they contribute more the middle class thrive the country also thrives. If they contribute less the middle class crashes thus the country crashes. The economy is a perception and the rich can still live a good life even if they contribute more. History and statistics is behind me here.
No deduction will punish rich Americans. They won't be able to deduct their millions of capital losses from federal income taxes.
set at what percentage?
If you think that all rich are successful, then I assume that you support a 100% estate tax, correct? Because if any rich people inherited their money, then there's no incentive for them to be successful at all and earn that so-called "flat" tax you think the wealthy deserve.
It is not a punishment to play by the same rules that made this country great. Life is not fair, and the people that have should be willing to give a little more to see that inequality diminished. Republicans used to believe that very same thing. Look at the history of taxation in the US over the history of the US. Wealthier people have a lower effective income tax rate now than they had during the majority of time under the last 6 presidencies. The disparity between the rich and the poor is at its greatest since the shortly following the depression. While the income of the wealthy has risen the income of the middle and poor has been flat for the last 30 years. Where is your concern for the majority of americans? Why are you more concerned with the unfairness that wealthy people receive but not for average people. I assume you aren't one of the rich and if I make this assumption in error, I apologize. But if you are, can't you see how all the money shifting to smaller and smaller portion of the population is in no ones best interest?
Definition of s-u-c-k-e-r ... anyone who wasted their money buying Cain's book. This was a book tour disguised as a presidential campaign.
I'm glad that tax plan is dead. It was made up like the $12.00 pizza with no thought as to the consequences. A 9% sales tax would kill business. We have a 7.25% states sales tax and sometimes we do not buy an item because of the tax. Another 9% would be the end, raising everyone's cost of living by 9%.
Good-Good-Good!
The line should be don't let the government get more money they will only give it to the rich.
Simple solution so we don't have to raise taxes is to cut spending. How about not being in a military engagement every few years, lowering the wages of politicians, and getting rid of extra crap like teaching classes in multiple languages at public school, or having things at the dmv in five.
It's amazing if you think about how $1 is taxed numerous times. That dollar comes from a consumer to a business, which is taxed as profits. That dollar goes either to a salary (payroll taxes) or investing in something new (then taxed as profit to the next person). The person who receives it in salary passes it to a retailer who charges them sales tax, then the retailer pays corp taxes... It's really fascinating if think about how many times that same dollar pays taxes to the federal/state govt.
"From one story concept to another, the antagonist still pay's for his crime; albeit a different setting! Nobody gets away with with their first chapter of mistakes!"
I prayer to God and my prayers were answered! Thank you God. Both Cain and his 6-6-6 are gone!
all this financial talk is way beyond Obama's ability to offer a sucessful solution or he would have done so in the first four years.....
So what's the alternative? Just tax more and have the government spend more, like the last forty years? And see where that has gotten us! These people att CNN have no viable alternatives, except support the government "mega-structure". And for what purpose? To get a story? They're Americans too. And no one in their right mind would suggest the government continue growing and spending like it has been. It's killing our freedoms....it's killing our liberties....and it's killing our country. I don't care if it's 3 1/2- 4 1/2 and 5 1/2. Stop the growth of government. It's our biggest enemy right now. And it's a crime that know-nothing parrots like Blitzer so summarily dismiss ANY proposal to stop government growth. Do it now!
The national sales tax isn't what is bringing Europe down...the blame for that falls on irresponsible spending. Canada has a national sales tax and we are doing just fine. Many economists argue that a small national sales tax is more effective than raising personal income taxes, because for the most part it is not an expense you feel (5 cents extra for a chocolate bar). If a national sales tax was coupled with cuts to the lowest income tax bracket, it would solve the problem of poor people having to pay the same amount as the rich. This isn't "Marxism", it's common sense.
One phony GOP candidate dismissed, seven more to go.
The fundemental concept of massive reform of the tax code is needed. Congress shouldn't be allowed to give largesse to it's high donors, nor social engineer through the tax code.
Why, many of them ask, should rich Americans pay the same flat rate that poor and middle class Americans pay? They hate the idea. Interesting, but they don't hate the idea that middle class and poor Americans actually have to pay a higher tax rate. Don't see the Republicans fighting for middle class people to pay a lower tax rate, now do we? But they sure are good at fighting for their lower tax rates for themselves. That being said, the "9-9-9-" idea was really dumb.
Here in Canada, we have a national sales tax and we're doing a lot better then both the USA and Europe. So Blitzer's argument that "The Europeans have their version of a national sales tax and look how well things have turned out for them" has a shaky and very narrow basis. Furthermore, a country's economy isn't influenced only by a national sales tax; you need to put a lot of other elements in the mix to get a clearer picture! Corporate taxes, regulations, etc.
People prefer simple explanations or solutions like the foolish 9-9-9 plan. But guess what: Nothing is simple so get used to it.
Oh and President Cain? ROFLMAO
No Wolf. It won't be dead until after he gets paid by the taxpayers to match his "contributions".
9-9-9 was dumb-dumb-dumb... Lol!
Wolf, the end point of a comparison of Europe and their sales tax is not fair when you relate it to their present situation. Unlike the US, Europe has tried to combine many economies under a single monetary system and effectually, a policy. A massive task, and it is causing all kinds of pain, especially because of the lack of restraint by the weaker of the economies.
"9-9-9” is dead-dead-dead... I say "Good Good Good". Cain was a fool – it's a shame that this election's republican field is so laughable. I used to be a republican. Then I grew up and developed the ability to reason. Now I'm an independent – which essentially means I'm always going to be in the middle between the ridiculous right and the loser left and there will never be a candidate that represents my rational point of view. Well... at least the democrats believe in evolution and not some invisible man living in the sky creating all life on earth...
It is pretty obvious that most of the commenters here have never bothered to study the 9 9 9 plan nor have they used the calculator that Cain provided to figure out their own taxes. The plan is/was genius and overall just a stepping stone to the Fair Tax. FYI it is called Fair, because everyone should have a little skin in the game. But that is probably too deep for the so-called intellectual group here that pretend to know it all.
Poor people have a helluva lot more skin in the game than rich people. A poor person is stuck here in the U.S., some rich guy can just bolt to the nearest island with more favorable taxes. Those of us who are part of the working class are here until the bitter end. We can't flee when things start going down. Someone can barely put food on the table for their family, and you're worried about "skin in the game." There's something perverted about that.
Most of us understood that Mr. Cain's proposal is now doa. Try another subject please that is of greater importance to the country. The Republican candidates are not the only story.
9-9-9 was a plan by someone with no credible (or identifiable) advisors and no clue who gratefully is out of the race. The partisan and non-partisan estimated impacts were clear. More tax on the lower echelons, more give away to the rich, and a lowering of total revenues to the Federal government. We need a simplified tax system, with zero loopholes. The we will all know where we stand.
The only good tax system is the one where people who are intended to owe the most tax actually pay. 9-9-9 would work just fine if every company like GE paid us full 9% and corporate executives were not allowed to use stock options as salary disguised as capital gain. Sadly, the likes of Herman Cain have no intention of going in that direction.
Wolf.......thanks for allowing me to comment on Cain......he is human...made a couple of mistakes......we all do....the 999 is dead...dead....dead......but if you turn that badge upside down we still have Mr Obama......666.....666.....666.
look, there is one thing that needs to be done with the tax code: Additional income tax brackets.
Currently, the top bracket is 250k. This means that a family that makes that amount, is taxed the same rate as someone with a $125 million dollar income. That is a problem.
I believe the reason Congress has such a hard time raising the income tax on the mega rich "high income bracket" is because it is no longer just the mega rich tax bracket....it's the tax bracket of small business owners and professionals such as docotor, lawyers, etc. It is the biggest trick that the ultra elite are pulling on the American people.
The ultra elite know that it will be difficult to get congress to raise taxes on the current highest tax bracket because so many people are in that bracket with them. If the tax bracket is expanded and 3 or 4 additional brackets are created, it will make it much easier for Congress to raise taxes on the ACTUAL ultra rich. There will no longer be the excuse of "hurting small businesses" which is the card that the politicians keep pulling on us.
The new brackets should be something according to these lines:
250K-600K; 600K-1million; 1mil-3mil; 3-10mil; 10-25mil;25mil-75mil; 75mil+
Great idea, Pat!
It's just as well.
After all, "999" is 50% more evil than "666". And that's a helluva thought.
I bet we see 9-9-9 again. After the election. Maybe brought up by the new Vice President.....
"Democrats think it’s regressive. Why, many of them ask, should rich Americans pay the same flat rate that poor and middle class Americans pay? They hate the idea."
Because that is what is called EQUALITY...a concept that doesn't apply to those with money apparently. If you've got money you don't get taxed at the same rate as everyone else, you get taxed more.
Too bad... a logical tax system that the average (or even the above average) can understand would be nice. The lack of transparency in Washington's current system should be illegal. I wish Cain could've kept it in his pants... we need a leader that IS NOT FROM WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
watch out folks...he only suspended his campaign. rumor has it he could come out down the road and be even a bigger waste of time!
The problem with our tax system is that it is akin to our health care system and education. We are only willing to but band-aids on one at a time. We are not willing to start over again which is what really needs to happen. We have a system that has evolved over a few hundred years rather than having a system that is designed for the 21st century. What we just don't realize and almost refuse to accept is that in terms of tax rates and economics, we can do whatever we want.We are allowing numbers to control our lives. 99% of the time these numbers bear no reflection on what we can do, and what we need to do. We need a system to take into account the necessity to motivate and incentivize people to actually get off their butts and do stuff. But one that acknowledges that we need to pay taxes at an appropriate rate. Taxes are not evil, they are necessary. We can do anything we want, but only if we choose to and the vast majority agree on one path and idea.
Isn't Cain's badge upside down? 9-9-9 looks more like 6-6-6 really. Not workable, unless one hates Government of any sort and is a Wingnut.
It was going to be nein-nein-nein from the get-go. With the public already understanding that the Bushies skewed the tax system to give more money to the rich, who was going to dare to vote for a plan to skew it even more?
This plan was one of the first and clearest indications of what a moron this man was when it comes to the actual work of policymaking. He seemed to think government can be reduced to the sort of catchy deals the pizza business likes to offer up.
It never was "alive-alive-alive". It was a plan that had no economic principles to back it up and was a jole from the beginning. Cain just like the way it rhymed – the fact it was fake and would never work made no difference to him. Good riddance to one more Republican loser, liar, and corrupt characterless jerk.
"The Europeans have their version of a national sales tax and look how well things have turned out for them" Well the unemployment rate in Germany is 3 % compared to 9% in the US, and they have universal health coverage and many other benifits. I would say that it has worked out very well. A national sales tax would be better then the Value Added Tax used everywhere in the world except for the backwards USA in that it has much lower administrative costs then the VAT. A national sales tax forces all of those people who avoid income taxes by claiming low or no income, the savings to the economy by eliminating the billions spent on preparing and reviewing individual and business tax returns are enormous, a consumption tax encourages investment and savings. The lack of a national sales tax or VAT in the US encourages imports and hurts exports leading to job loss and a reduction in our standard of living.
The current tax structure gives law makers complete power over US citizens. Also meaning to give discount to the rich when wanted.
Cain was the only brave American to have put out the "Bold 9-9-9 Plan". Well, Cain is out of the race, 9-9-9 is not dead, it is still alive in his heart. I see it coming out some day some how.
Sales tax is a very regressiove tax. Poorer people pay a significantly higher portion of their net income than the wealthy. If you want to gouge the poor and middle class just raise the sales tax rates.
Mr Blizer. Fellow Americans
The Tax-centric solution is multipronged:
– Eliminate Gentry Farm tax deductions. Most 'farm' real-estates is non productive and therefore the subsidy- fake.
– Not only eliminate tax breaks for luxury real-estate,Art and luxury items and club memberships that are used as 'corporate' perks, but in fact, levy a specific luxury tax on collections.
Taxing income is WRONG as it taxes effort, innovation and the American dream. Taxing excessive and egregious luxury spending is the egalitarian angle.
if anything, capital gains should pay huge taxes, and no tax break for losses.
yes, people working hard for their money should pay their fair share, but people that invest billions in stock and turn millions of profit in a single day without having to lift a finger in effort really should pay more.
oh, and doing away with a national tax (imho) was done to protect the illegals here in the US who don't pay income tax.. at least a national tax in leiu of income tax would have captured money for our system of government that is currently being sent via western union to mexico or lord only knows where else!
Taxing income is not going against the American dream. That income was generated in part with government spending, and the government has every right to tax income to insure this protection and a social safety net.
Taxing income _is_ wrong (stealing, even by the gov't, is WRONG) and all those things you mentioned can be funded by taxing something else, most preferably consumption. No one, including the gov't, has a right to take someone else's property by force. Its stealing, plain and simple.
Good article. It was almost too good to be true. Cain never really had a chance towards the nomination, let alone the White House.
Its not "9-9-9"........its more like (as my German friends might say) "Nein....nein.....nein!"
It's none-none-none
9-9-9 was DOA even before Cain dropped out. Oh sorry, "suspended."
Blitzer and other leftists tend to verbalize their personal political preference rather than reality. Some version of a "fair tax" is still very much alive and well among a large number of Americans. On the other hand, the left would like to place the entire tax burden on the wealthy and continue the pattern of redistributing wealth in pursuit of the Marxist dream.
The "left" doesn't want to place the "entire" tax burden on the rich, just a "fair share" of it. The top tax rate in 1980 was 70%, now it's half that! Corporate executives get a large portion of their compensation from "Corporate Dividends," which are taxed at an even LOWER rate (less than the middle class pays!) During these past 30 years, thanks mostly to Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, the National Debt has grown from about $1 Trillion to over $16 Trillion. We can't get rid of all that debt through reductions in spending alone (cutting spending on Education is stupid, because it hurts us in the long run), ESPECIALLY since neither side of the aisle wants to cut "Defense," which is HALF the annual budget.
learn was Marxism is before you try to quote on it. Marxism isn't redistribution of wealth...it's goverment controlled wealth...and no i don't agree with it, i just wanted to point out that you don't know what you're talking about
"On the other hand, the left would like to ..." Completely untrue. I've never heard a Dem say anything like that. The only people who do are righties when they lie about the left.
A. Assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, how would it differentiate "Blitzer and his fellow leftists" from his counterparts on the right?
B. "Fair" is clearly a highly-subjective concept.
C. Are rightist truisms such as the idea that lower taxes for the wealthy create jobs and lift the income of the middle class borne out by the facts? Where's the pudding, and does it contain the proof?
Can't we have a 'country song' about 999...gone gone gone....
I think they should raise the taxes made on investments and lower the taxes actual labor because you can have many investments but you can only be one place at a time.
Short term capital gains (stocks bought and sold within 12 months) are taxed at the same rate as ordinary income.
Long term capital gains (stocks that must be held for greater than 12 months) are offered a lower tax rate to encourage holding stocks longer. This provides greater stability to the markets as there is an incentive to ride out the short term highs and lows. Take this away and even more volatility in the markets is likely.
Also, there is not gaurantee the stocks will increase in value. So, there more risk in that stream of income than in hourly or salary income which is assured.
I would support raising the tax rate on long term capital gains just as soon as everyone has to work for 12 months with no pay. And when they do get paid 12 months later they are not garanteed to make the same. Of course, they might make more.
That would seem fair to me...
15% flat tax on personal income, keep the 15% flat on capital gains, and lower corporate taxes all the way down to 10%. This is necessary so that the U.S. can compete with other First World nations like Canada (15% corporate tax), and Ireland (12.5% corporate tax), as an attractive place for your business to call home. Allow a much more simplified system of deductions for things like buying a home, business expenses, and having a child, for people making under 500K a year, and above that, no deductions. This is a flatter system, but a compromise at the same time. Revenue must be made up for with dramatic spending cuts, and will also be covered by reduced unemployment and poverty as a result of lowering the corporate tax, along with reducing regulation and red tape.
With all the loopholes, credits and abatements the effective tax rate in the U.S. for many companies is lower than Canada's or Ireland's.
We need tax reform, but a national sales tax benefits the rich over the poor. Why? Think about it...A person earning $30,000 a year would probably spend at LEAST $10,000 of their income (33%) on taxable goods. A person earning $250,000 a year would probably spend $20,000-$30,000 a year on taxable goods. The person making $30,000 has to pay that additional sales tax on a THIRD of his or her income, but the guy making $250,000/year only has to pay the additional tax on 10-15% of their income. No one ever brings this up when talking about a National Sales Tax...but, if the tax is "flat", it will hit the poor and working class of this country a lot harder than it hits the "job creators" that buy off (ahem!) contribute to our lawmakers campaigns!
What about the seniors living on Social Security. I never heard where they were excluded from 999 either. It would have been a death tax to them.
If what you say is true of a national sales tax, then it is equally true of every state sales tax. Several states do not have a state income tax, but as far as I know, every state charges a sales tax. Where are the complaints from Democrats against these regressive taxes?
was "9-9-9, doing fine" just another of his lies?
will he be appearing on the next season of Dancing with the Stars?
Aaaa, what does "Blitz" know anyway? lol
Quite a bit, actually, Mr. Legion.
The 9-9-9 tax plan was about the ONLY idea I liked of Herman Cain's. Basically, I liked the idea of those making less than $106,800 paying an effective tax rate (i.e., 9% – payroll taxes) of 1.35%, and those making over $106,800 having to pay and effective tax rate of 9% for the income over $106,800 (with NO DEDUCTIONS). It also seemed pro small business, but that takes a bit to explain. As far as congress increasing the numbers, they could do that with ANY tax system...so it is a mute point. With regard to the sales tax, I agree that most American's can't really stomach SEEING their taxes paid on consumption...they just don't realize they are already paying it as a hidden tax. I guess we like our heads in the sand...
I, personally, liked the 9-9-9 plan and yes I'm part of that group that pays way too much so that a bunch of people don't have to pay anything at all. I think everyone should pay the same RATE and I don't think we should be giving out a lot of dispensations because you are part of this group or own this property etc.
I want a nice flat unadulterated tax for all. I also like the sales tax. I think we should put a penalty on consumption.
I even like the ability that we can raise or lower the amount if 9% isn't sufficient then we raise it to 10%. If the goverment is running a surplus (HA HA) we lower it back down. As long as everyone pays the same.
Right now the way it is set up I always feel like I'm being fleeced to make it easier for some special interest group that has bent a politiican's ear.
Why would you want to penalize consumption? That's the very engine of the economy! That's like penalizing a car's gasoline burning and then expecting it to perform better.
Cain's 9-9-9 plan was dead as soon as he mentioned it
Thanks Blitz 🙂 I think we could have figured that out.
I remember my first trip to England. With the 12% VAT, I looked at each purchase in a new way. I learned to look at the price and see that additional amount. Given that some communities tax – on top of state taxes – and you already have 8% or more in some places. If you added a 9% sales tax to that, it would be 17%!
Think about those below the poverty line. ALL of their income goes to necessities; there is no such thing as 'discretionary spending' for them. If they get paid $100, they would effectively have only $83 to spend on necessities. The rich don't have to worry so much about being able to afford the necessities of life. And, if it means buying a smaller boat or a less luxurious car, well, they're still not hurting so bad. So, it really is a regressive tax that hurts those at the bottom of the economic ladder the most.
perhaps this is an incentive to go to school, work for a living, make yourself and your community better?
as it stands now, the rich are penalized for their successes in life..
indeed, why try to be rich? the government just takes more!
yeah, get that squeegy, pump some gas for tips, be successful, turn it into a car wash
incorporate and franchise it.. then you can complain about the lowlifes sucking the blood out of america living on welfare too!
Yeah, but even when the government takes more, they're still rich. This idea that being working class or poor means that you don't work or are too lazy is ridiculous. Many millionaires didn't work for a dime, they inherited it. Open a car wash, give me a break. I'm already poor, where in the heck am I gonna get money to buy/build a car wash? With no source of collateral, because I'm already poor, the banks are not offering me any money and I'm not connected, so where will I get access to potential investors? This stuff is all a fairy tale.
My husband is an Engineer and I hold a masters degree. We have both studied hard, we have two daughters 1 house and 1 car, 1 credit card each. We have no debt other than the mortgage. We do not go on vacation, granted, we live in San Diego, CA where we have jobs, but San Diego is expensive. We live paycheck-to-paycheck... I pay over 30% in taxes, and do not even get me started on property taxes. So, why is it that I pay more taxes than the CEO of the company I work for, who by the way does not have a masters degree? How is that fair?
Oh! And Matt, learn economics 101. You want people to consume because by consuming the pay taxes (in the way of sales tax = revenue for the goverment) and increase demand, when you increase demand, companies need to increase production, when you increase production, you increase personnel, when you increase personnel you increase job when you increase jobs you increase people's have more spending money and tax revenue by way of income tax. That's why middle and lower classes need a tax break, because they are the majority and the majority consumes more than the 1%. You want to tax the 1% higher, because they are not consuming, sending money overseas to avoid paying taxes. Do me a favor, here's some money, go get a clue!
If they taxed like this people would just be invented to barter more.
Let's have an individual tax cap. Total taxes from any source may not exceed x% of any individual's income.
I second that. Tax meaning Income, payroll, state & sales. Add them all up and make sure no individual tax brack exceeds tax rate X.
Governments should never be entitled to more of the money you earn than you are. So, no greater than a 50%??????
When averaged across all 50 States the top US tax bracket currently pays ..... just over 50%
Don't just take my word for it either. Look it up and crunch the numbers yourself. Everything you need can be found at Wikipedia.
Your answer to the tax problem, combined with eliminating most if not all tax write-offs and ending all corporate welfare and subsidy payments, would prove to be an interesting ride.
Unfortunately such a system would put a greater burden on the poor working classes and the desperately poor than they are already forced to bear. Any tax conversations must make sure that the most vulnerable in our society are protected.
999 would reduce overall federal revenue, increase the tax burden on the poor, and reduce the burden on the wealthy at a time when wealth concentration is the highest since the Gilded Age. It will hurt all but the upper classes in the short term, and even the wealthy in the long term when they realize that without a healthy consumption base, they can't thrive. By then we'll be a banana republic (we're halfway there already).
Lessons from Canada, which has the GST.
A sales or VAT would be a boon to the nation's finances, and very good policy. And it will also be so wildly unpopular that you'd need a majority of policymakers caring more about the nation's finances than their personal ambition to implement it, and even if you did it might quickly be repealed.
A sales tax is regressive, but if you pair it with a flat tax credit, its net impact on lower earners becomes nil. It is also far simpler and far cheaper to collect than income or corporate taxes, meaning of every dollar taxed, there will be more to spend (or pay down debt) than from other taxes.
The problem is, it is HIGHLY visible. People notice it every day. With payroll withdrawals it is easy for income tax to slide under the radar until tax filing time. And then it can produce a refund. But a sales tax they will see and curse every day. So as much as the US could use one, it won't get one.
most forget about a tax credit to even things out. in theory you could drop payroll taxes all together. a vat would help capture some of the under the table money.
The button is upside down. It's 6-6-6, and devised by corporations and their puppet who is Herman Cain. The devil is in the details, and 9-9-9 is (or should I say, was) full of corporate stash-away's.
How a bout a gun ownership tax that pays for the " Defense" budget? Clearly having both a private and public stock of weapons is redundant. And it's only fair that those who like us all having guns should pay for the extra "freedom" to have them.
And a hefty "unpatriotic investing in foreign countries" tax. That one should have our supply of US jobs shoot up. And a huge domestic economy. Plus of course we will no longer be stimulating the ability of other countries to threaten us militarily. Hence the the Pentagon could safely shrink mightily
Tony, since we are taxing "freedoms" as you put it, should we go back to poll taxes? Or having to pay a tax to say something that may offend others? Or we could start taxing religion. There is a sure fire way of raising funds.
Canada has a national and provincial sales tax too and this economy is working well and until very rcently the government was in surplus. On a moderate level a consumption tax when combined with a less regressive income tax can be a good overall solution to a major funding deficit.
I sure wish the Democrats would begin promoting an alternative tax plan as well. They destroyed Cains 9-9-9 plan but have not offered any other solutions. WE NEED A SOLUTION HERE. Our tax code is one of the most challenging in the WORLD for both citizen and business. I would invite you to read the book The Fair Tax. You may agree or disagree with the actual Fair Tax, but at least you will have a better idea of what we are up against.
9-9-9 is dead-dead-dead because Mrs. Cain to Herm if you keep running for President I will kill you 9-9-9 times.
everybody wants to reform taxes but nobody wants to pay more.
My husband and I want to know why, Wolf, no one on your show ever talks about what the real 'payroll tax' is.
It's paying less in to their social security account, it's not a tax cut. It's not Federal Income tax being reduced, it's Social security that is already in truoble. (so we are told). I am paying less in to my social security each week I get paid, which means I'll get less when I retire. Do I want that - NO! Why does no one on your show ever talk about what this tax really is?? I really want to watch your show one day soon, where you really explain what this 'tax cut' is, and how it really is affecting people. Thank you.
There will be no reshaping of the U.S. Tax Code. It'a always part of a campaign platform and once elected it becomes a second term issue. Of course, there isn't always a second term and when there is, there are simply other things more important. This can has been kicked down the road far enough. We need to create a more fair and equitable system of and for the middle class who is the majority stakeholder.
I told you all along it was NEIN, NEIN, NEIN! Wolf what part of NEIN don't you understand?
Hot-Hot-Hot MESS! Good bye Cain.
Dr. Ron Paul has the only reasonable tax plan out of any of the candidates, including Obama. By getting rid of the hidden 'inflation tax' we can save the lower and middle class much heartache.
We need Ron Paul!!!!
No more taxes – CUT Spending! We have to do this in our own households when we overextend ourselves. The Federal budget should be no different.
So what spending should I cut, since my husband was laid off? The roof over my kids heads or the food on their plates? Maybe their asthma medication so they will just stop breathing?????
Yes, if your household needs to cut back, it can. But there comes a time when you may have to go out and get that second source of income, or enhance the one you have. The US can't pay it's bills – cutting alone won't be enough to make that change.
Thanks you Sildenafil. For some reason most people seem to forget this one factor when speaking of the government. If you need money, you cut spending and find an additional source of income. For most, it is taking a part-time job. I know my mom was always working a part-time job to make ends meet. You can't just cut spending and think that alone will get it done. Besides, when you cut spending, who is going to fill in that gap by the government. If you say private organizations or churches- it will only last a while until they are out of money as well. Remember who contributes to those organizations- the very people that were laid off.
Cut what? Fire all federal employees, there is still a massive deficit and debt. Cut all of these federal contracts with private companies, still a massive deficit and debt. Cut some federal agencies, still a massive deficit and debt. Republicans cut revenue for the sole purpose of trying to cut programs, it is hasn't and never will increase job growth or anything else. Americans, at least enough Americans, are finally seeing through the malarky.
After withdrawing from the Presidential campaign, are American taxpayers still paying for Herman Cain's Secret Service protection? If so, Why?
Wolf, since Mr. Cain is no longer a candidate, when does he lose his Secret Service detail?
To try to compare the situation in Europe with any of our policies is apples and oranges. The major weakness for the EU is massively different economic policies in different countries sharing a common currency. It's not a referendum on socialized medicine or national sales tax or any other bogus claim US politicians want to make.
Why is it the US ranks near the bottom of the developed counties in terms of an ambitious person being able to move upward on the economic tree? Why is it you have to have money to make money? You want fair? I want fair. Why is it the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer? How much money does a person need to be happy and content? Why should a rich person have tax breaks available to them that I can't have because I don't make enough money? Cain was an idiot. His supporters are idiots. But one thing is true, 9 times out of 10...I pay more of a proportion of my TOTAL income than a millionaire.
It was dead-dead-dead upon arrival. It was poorly conceived and would have had the most impact on the people least able to afford it! Flat taxes always fall most heavily on the poor.
Cain's 999 is 666 – that 999 only works in Simcity. Taxing the poor more, the wealthy less makes no sense, they are already poor and the wealthy are already rich.
Instead of a national sales tax, there should be a national credit card that gives cash-back rewards every time you make a purchase.
"Republicans don’t like a new revenue stream coming into the federal government. They fear that 9% today could easily become 15% tomorrow and 20% down the road."
This is the kind of fear mongering Republicans use to turn people who don't think things through against any change Republicans oppose. The same argument could be used for any law. Taxing income at 35% today could easily become 50% or 75% down the road. If the government can make you buy health insurance what's to stop them from making you buy a car?
Well, here's what prevents the absurd: Voters. If something makes sense and you can make a good case that it's good for society, voters will accept it (and yes, there are good reasons for having everyone buy health insurance even though a lot of people haven't taken the time to learn what they are). If it's onerous and no good rationale exists for it, voters will not stand for it. Politicians, people who value reelection above all else, know this.
As soon as someone uses this argument you know he can't support his position. This is the argument of someone who is desperate.
you need to remember that the personal income tax was pushed through saying it would only be 1%. And yes, that's what it started at, but we can see what it has ballooned into today. Some of the concerns about the government setting a precedent and making worse from there are valid
And Wolf Blitzer is happy happy happy that it is dead dead dead.
Guess it's time to put out the 411 that 999 is 86'd.
why do the law allow these so call suspended candidates to collect our hard earned tax dollars.
these people need to drop out and only have access to private funds only.
The IRS itself is crazy - I purchased a "green" roof to replace my old roof, claimed the credit, and a year later the IRS is wanting me to prove that I had the roof done. Did that and now the IRS sends me letter saying they are reviewing the paperwork and if it isn't proper, they will communicate again with me. What a waste of taxpayer dollars!!!!!!! If they didn't have the stupid tax credit for the new roof, a lot of taxpayer dollars would have been saved.
Can we get teh 5–5-5 deal???
I vote that we just go back to the tax rates that existed under Reagan.
That way, the Republicans have to explain to the rest of us why what was good enough for their "God" isn't good enough for us now?
Hey Wolf! Here in Canada we have a national sales tax, and it is the only reason why our government is still standing...we hated it when it was first introduced to get out of a huge budget defecit that was left behind the socilaist government before, but now we cant live without it! Its better to tax sales than income! thats for sure!
true, sales tax is better than income, but we need to remember that new/more sales tax will hit the poor and middle class the hardest so it's not perfect
With the kind of infighting that is erupting, I think all the Republican candidates will be dead, dead, dead.
The rumor has it that Cain is planning to put GOPster on the menu, at $9.99.
What we actually need is to kill the income taxes, and replace them with a National sales tax, more preciesly the Fair Tax.
The Fair Tax is NOT regressive, the income taxes, when talen altogher with the payroll taxes (social security and medicare) as well as the fact that income taxes are 22% of the price of American manufactured goods, which poor people also pay from the 1st dollar they earn each year, make the income taxes highly regressive compared to the Fair Tax. Due to a mechanism in the Fair Tax called the prebate, the Fair Tax is the ONLY tax proposed that the poor do not pay a penny of. But, you have to understand it in order to demand it.
AS IF!. Why all of the talk about candidate's tax plans?? As if an incoming president gets to bring in the nation's next taxing structure...
Fortunately Cain is now irrelevant
Q -Why, many of them ask, should rich Americans pay the same flat rate that poor and middle class Americans pay? A -Because 9% of $1M is more then 9% of 20k.
true, but the initial hit of 9% across the board will be felt the most by the poor and middle class. I'm all for sales tax over income, but we could just cut spending and not need either income or a new sales tax
Yeah, but taking 9% of my 20k is going to hurt me a helluva lot more than taking 9% from 1mil. It's not rocket science. If I have 10k, and you take 900, that hurts me a lot because the price of lodging, food, etc. are all the same. The only way this works is if people making less are paying less for the basic necessities of life. Otherwise you end up with more welfare or people living in absolute poverty next to the mansions.
9-9-9 is dead-dead-dead? No, Blitz.
Haha, I never knew Wolf had such a good sense of humor.
Well look like someone plans might change hmm check please what was plan B ,again.
It dead and gone, just like Herman Cain, what he still dose not understand the GOP would never have a back president.
Funny, it appeared to me as if the Democrats were more concerned about Cain as a black president than the republicans were. As I recall, he won the Iowa straw poll and was the Republican frontrunner for a period of time.